Today I’m going to share with you 5 of the ways that narcissists argue with you. There are many more ways, but these 5 are the most common ones, that virtually every narcissist uses when confronted.
It’s important for you to know this, because …
Narcissists are not team players.
They don’t like to be questioned or challenged, and they will take arguments to incredible lengths (and depths) rather than be held accountable.
Narcissists play very dirty when engaged in any of these 5 ways they argue with you.
Let’s check them out …
Number 1 – Projection
This really is the most obvious of the 5 ways that narcissists argue with you.
When confronted the narcissist will immediately get defensive. You will feel it coming. The narcissist is working out how to launch their attack on you and turn this into you being the bad person.
What follows is the narcissist purporting that you have it wrong. You are unreasonable. YOU do the things that you are questioning or reproaching the narcissist on. The problems are YOUR fault, and the way you treat the narcissist is abysmal.
What hurts terribly is the narcissist’s assertion that you are a terrible person with zero integrity.
Or a nut job, or unstable … or whatever the accusation is.
You will be shocked when this happens because it can be so sudden, calculating and cruel. The reaction is designed to hit your most vulnerable emotional parts.
The projection can be cold and chilling, or hot and raging.
Either way, it is devastating.
All because you questioned something, or tried to stand up for your rights.
Number 2 – Excuses
Another extremely common defence mechanism within the 5 main ways that a narcissist argues with you is excuses.
These are “reasons” excusing his or her behaviour. Often these “reasons” involve “projection” meaning blaming you for what they did.
These could be things like, “I did this because you make me angry and I wanted you to feel what it is like to be treated like this” or “I had an affair because you are so cold sexually towards me” or “But I did say or do that” … (when they never did).
Excuses are all about avoiding responsibility, remorse and repairing the damage.
Fundamentally when a narcissist uses excuses the message is, “I will not be held to account, because I did nothing wrong.”
This completely minimalizes your experience of being abused, deceived or betrayed by the narcissist who refuses to admit it.
Number 3 – False Apology
When a narcissist says, “I said I was sorry, what more do you want?” or “I’m sorry … but … (projections or excuses)” these are not apologies.
A decent, honest and genuine apology is a full admittance without excuses and defences and a pledged commitment followed by action to restore faith and trust.
Something like, “I am sorry, I know what I did and how that hurt you, and you have my word that I will not do that to you again” is a good start. Then the required action to back it up is the proof.
An apology is not just words. It is dedicated restoration and goodliness in action.
When arguing with a narcissist, you will feel incredibly disturbed when receiving apologies that are not apologies. You know when you feel these words – because of how they land emotionally in your body – as to how insincere they really are.
Then, of course, you will push for a more genuine apology, because you can’t believe these hollow words. You don’t feel safe!
It is then that the narcissist will turn on you and accuse you of not trusting them, having issues from your past that mean you are too damaged to trust people, or that you are comparing him or her or other people, and all sorts of diversions to try to get you to drop the necessary boundary of not accepting an apology unless it feels genuine.
Then, of course, the narcissist will re-offend and you find yourself back in the same place all over again.
If someone is not genuinely remorseful through word and action, then POINT BLANK they are not safe to be in a relationship with.
Number 4 – Refusing To Stay On Topic
When the narcissist is under scrutiny, he or she is an expert at taking the argument off-topic.
This is when they will bring up things about you that have nothing to do with the issue at hand. Then a particular conversation becomes a three-ring circus, going down all sorts of paths that make your head spin.
This could be comments about you speaking in a condescending tone, or using confrontational body language.
Really, the narcissist may throw at you any little nasty nugget that they have been harbouring against you, no matter how unrelated.
The narcissist may even drop the bombshell about how he or she has been considering leaving you or has fallen out of love, or that he or she has decided something is going to be taken away or withheld from you.
The narcissist can use emotional distress – the destruction of your deepest desires, or the triggering of your deepest fears, against you, without conscience.
Why does the narcissist use this tactic? It’s very simple – to punish you for attempting to hold his or her insecure fragile ego, to account.
Number 5 – Pathological Lying
Narcissists lie … a lot. They lie to secure their own agenda, and also because their reality is so twisted they may actually believe their own pathological versions.
The narcissist you are dealing with is likely to be an expert liar because he or she has been doing this from a very early age. A narcissist can look you straight in the eye and tell you blatant untruths without flinching.
In arguments the narcissist is capable of pathologically lying to save face, making excuses that aren’t real or granting you false hope and confidence in them that is not warranted. A narcissist can also gaslight you so that you distrust yourself and hand your power, rights and boundaries away.
Lies to cover up their immoral activities can be examples such as: “I love you, I would never do that to you” or “It was this person who did that not me” or “This person (or everyone) says that you are the problem, and they know who you really are” … or “You were seen by someone I can’t name who reported that you were up to no good.”
Narcissists also, once the cracks have appeared in your relationship, tell people big lies about you to discredit you.
Predominately everything that the narcissist vouched you do, is what he or she has been up to themselves.
In Closing
I want you to get very clear about the answer to this question …
“How do you effectively argue with a narcissist?”
The answer is, “DON’T argue with one!”
You can’t talk sanity to insanity.
You can’t make what is disturbed sane.
You will no sooner get a narcissist to face up to things humanely, responsibility and honestly than you would get a crocodile to roll over while you scratch it’s tummy or get it to fetch a ball for you.
Narcissists can’t communicate healthily – because they simply aren’t wired that way, it doesn’t compute for them.
This is not about you trying to get a narcissist to understand or validate ANYTHING about you and life, it is about YOU understanding yourself and your life.
Then a narcissist can’t rope you into their three-ring circus – their nasty playpen where everything goes and all bets are off.
By doing so you will discover just how powerless this person is to affect you anymore, or devastate, abuse or violate you.
I can’t tell you how much this is true when you detach and turn inwards to heal to empower and elevate yourself above this UTTER rubbish and nonsense.
Would you love to learn how to do that?
My Narcissistic Abuse Recovery Program is the most powerful way I know how to drop the narcissist and leave them alone with their games, and finally break free into your true, healthy and sane life.
Where you can attract and participate in healthy communication and relationships with other sane, healthy adults, filled with truth, responsibility, kindness and care.
And … you will never EVER fall back into those toxic participations again.
To learn more about NARP (the Narcissistic Abuse Recovery Program) click on this link.
And … as always, I look forward to answering your comments and your questions below.
Oh so true in ever aspects … well said especially pulling away from the insane who don’t know they are insane …
That’s great this spoke to you Faye,
much love
Mel 🙏💕💚
Hi, My name is Christy. I left a narcissist a year ago. We were together 5 years with the last 2 being hell. I thought he was my person forever. After 2 years of sleeping in separate rooms, and the torture he put me through, and staying in misery thinking he would change back to the man I fell in love with, he kicked me out. My question is, what do you do when they say horrible things to you then block you so you can’t comment? And you know he’s not with anyone else through old neighbors and friends but will unblock me just to tell me, or say just enough to make me think he’s on a date? Knowing it sends me into tears and jealousy and he knows it gets me upset just enough for me to get angry and upset just so he can say ” See, this is why I can’t be with you because you’re unstable and need medical help?
Do this NARP program. You’ll heal, learn and live a thriver life. There is other way. Logic doesn’t work with narcs. It starts within you. Different energy happens. Great support when you join. It’s excellent. Going round in circles with questions does not help or work.
You are so right. I would like to know what happened in their life to make a narcissist a narcissist?
It’s learnt behaviour, watching a parent, Grandparent, Uncle, or significant role model use Narcissistic, abusive, tactics. They are hard wired to use these tactics.
I spent many years argueing with a narc Mom, what a waste of time. Now my 2 adult children are narcs so I hope I have learned not to argue, set boundaries, get off the phone, do not expect them to be there for you. I can love them but they cant love back. Sad but reality. There are others that can love you though.
Big hugs to you Brenda,
you are right it is sad but reality.
And so true that LOVE still exists for you
Mel 🙏💕💚
I also had a narc mother and my two adult children are narcs. I need to learn how to disenfage with them when they start the abuse cycle.. i have finally come to understand they have no ability to love me back. Therfore, my expectations of them is nothing but i need to learn how to change my feelings of guilt and shame abd heal myself within with quantum understandings and how to love myself and love my children unoinditionally. I also need to brake free from a toxic very abusive relationship. I have been evolved with Narcissust my entire life. I need to change my emotions and what I am attracting in my life. I want to be happy and love myself.
Hi Melanie💛
You have been an angel since my moms passing ~ 9/11/18….a real “911” for me! It’s been incredible, and it took me many, many years to understand what was truly happening.
I wonder what you would say to my attorneys, that have scheduled Mediation w opposing counsel~ as I understand unfortunately judges do not want to even see your case – until you have tried to mediate. 👎 Mediation with a narcissist ( like you said above ~ talking sanity to insanity !) doesn’t work!
My atty told me last week, that “ judges unfortunately see much worse “…” they see people putting out cigarettes on their children “ …
“it could be so much worse”. Oh, it is.
Unconscionable that I even had to HEAR this Comparison.
Your thoughts and words 🙏 for me to use?
This motivates me even MORE to advocate ~ expose ~ push for better laws for our children and ourselves for enduring these individuals. They are spiritually evil. I have heard many explanations, it is unbelievable in every way. Yes, all bets are off.
Thank you so much💛
💪 Excellent article. Leave the pigs to play in their $hit. Good people have better things to do 👏
They sure do My Fair Lady!
Mel 🙏💕💚
I love that My fair lady .Straight to the point for all of us .And funny !!!
Hi Lori, your words “spiritual evil,” the best way I have heard of summing up a narcissist. Stay strong, remember love always finds a way x
I’m in the same situation unfortunately. Been married to a narc for 33 years and filed for divorce in spring after finding out he’s been having an online affair along with sending her 10’s of thousands of dollars. This is the worst nightmare I’ve ever gone through and his threats if I don’t call off my lawyer are numerous. If I was healthy this would be easier but it only makes him happy. Narcs are cruel people! I wish you well and hope you have good support.
Judy
I had 36 years of madness. Divorced now. Still going through stuff as we have a house to sell.Hopefully not much longer then I can live my life as I deserve. You will to.
Hi Lori,
I’m so pleased that I have been able to help you.
Lori sweetheart I am always going to recommend NARP http://www.melanietoniaevans.com/narp especially for dealing with high conflict personalities in all circumstances including court battles … because this is the way to get the inner and then outer lined up to serve you and fall in place.
It is really difficult to get positive results without achieving that – truly.
I hope that this can help, and also please know with NARP you have the outstanding assistance as a 24/7 resource of the incredible private NARP Community which specialises in helping you get through this.
Much love to you
Mel 🙏💕💚
Lori,
I am in this exact position. I would love to connect with you somehow. No one understands what I am facing.
Lisa
Do a free workshop then do Do Narp…..Only way through
Lori and Lisa,
I am also going through a court case with my narcissistic ex. He wants access to our son, whom he has never met because I left him after a violent attack when I was pregnant. The courts also told me that fathers do much worse than this and still get to see their kids. It totally broke my heart and I was a complete mess for the following week.
He finally admitted to domestic abuse in the last hearing which felt like a slight step in the right direction, but I feel he was just following his lawyers instructions. He has since been sending messages complaining that I have stopped him from seeing his son. I got sucked in and had the argument. It never works.
So much of this makes total sense now. I remember feeling totally confused and angry when we argued in our relationships. He used every insecurity against me. He slut shamed me all the time! I felt so ill and unhappy. I am so glad I am out of it now. Also terrified about him becoming a part of our lives again.
These articles and videos have really helped. It would be really good to talk to other mothers in the same position, it has felt really lonely and so difficult to explain.
It is so hard parallel parenting with a narc. Three years on and its still tearing me apart. Hes still controlling through the kids and brain washing my eldest and youngest. I feel out of control and feel at my lowest when I have to deal with him.
I only have to make it through three years. However, it’s only been a few months and it has been BRUTAL. I feel terrible for making my son face him alone.
Hi Caz,
I can’t recommend my NARP Porgam enough to help you http://www.melanietoniaevans.com/narp
It will help you get on top of this immeasurably. Plus we will be able to assist you directly in the NARP private member’s forum.
I hope that this gives you hope
Mel 🙏💕💚
Gosh I hear you! It’s not nice to watch your children be manipulated and then use those tactics, or maybe even worse have to watch them become the victims of it. I found what someone else posted earlier helpful. It seems to come down to expectations, and as well as ensuring our boundaries our strong XO
As far as dealing with ex, I’m 4 years post split, things are just starting to improve. I accept that we parallel parent rather than co parent, absolutely no need for discussions apart from safety and health. I talk to the school separately now, as the ex made it about him/us rather than the child. Therapy he blocked when I asked him, I now take the boys in my time and he accepts that.
Kia kaha XO
Feel free to email me.
Narcs do a lot of harm to their children. Their children are voiceless and are not supposed to haver their own opinions, ideas, feelings or moods. ACON (Adult Children of Narcissists) suffer a great deal as they do not have a solid sense of self, their self confidence is totally eroded. They stand on shaky ground. With what I have known, my advice would be to run away somewhere where there is no contact. Your child will grow up confused and triangulated.
Do the Narp program. Talking about it only keeps you in the pain. Do her free workshop and then do the program. You’ll never look back.
I feel the same way! Please contact me .
Lisa
[email protected]
This blog is exactly the reminder I needed to read. It really put things in perspective for me. I was told that I was the narc so many times I almost started to believe it. So grateful to the universe for hearing me, and myself for listening to that trusted inner voice! Reading this clarified that my inner voice was right.
How about trying to force an apology out of you when you haven’t done anything worth apologizing for?
This was a good one to read today. So true everything you said . It really hits home. The divorce part now being cut off financially and having three different attorneys he’s still getting away with things. Especially men that have the money and career. i was the loving mother , Devoted wife. Women still are not equal to men in the law. it’s really hard to keep going and stand up to your spouse going through a divorce when he has a better attorney and is taking you through for everything he can get. I’m rambling. Maybe you can talk about the divorce part. When you were mom and a homemaker You don’t know anything about divorce , attorneys who to trust and who has your back. And in reality they’re just wanting money. If a woman doesn’t have any money she can’t get representative. It’s not easy and the man has the money he can get any attorney wants. Anyways thanks for all your topics keep them up you’ve help me a lot. Sincerely Rebecca
Watch Dirty John on Netflix, the second series the Betty Broderick story
its gas lighting at its best
I hear you Rebecca as I have been in exactly the same position I really have as I too was a devoted wife and mum ( homemaker) to a man with a prosperous career who is earning thousands and I might ass I helped him when he had nothing to pursue thst career and looked after his children 24/7 . My needs were last always and as soon as he was at the top with money he wanted to leave to making it clear he wanted a newer and younger and fresher model. In other words women half my age. If it had not been for my father sadly passing away , for which I don’t think I would have coped , as he helped me with my girls during the years from aged 8 and aged 11 , the money I obtained from the sale of my dads little old house I used in court. Him and his attorneys still fought hard as he had the best and was determined to “win”. He still would not agree to give me a small amount in comparison to his monthly income which is huge after 2 court hearings by which time u was exhausted and not sure I could go to court a third time financially . He actually disagreed with the amount the judge said was reasonable to give me and I couldn’t for healtgband financial reasons face court for a third and last time so I settled for a pittance . The only help and reliable support I ever had in all the years of bringing children up and seeing to ALL their needs was off my father who left me the money . So I do completely understand that I’m not sure allowing a man to pursue his career while we raise a family is a great idea unless maybe a multi millionaire . Very sad but true . Anyway keep strong and keep going step by step and do small things everyday that bring you peace and joy thst cost little like a swim or walk in nature and pray for support in your favour however small. My girls are all grown up now both working and taking care of themselves financially and it’s been a struggle and I’ve gone without myself so much but I have my peace and try not to try to work out WHY when I was so fair and loyal and devoted he totally and utterly discarded me . Perhaps like spoilt children ( as Melanie says ) they get bored with their toys and literally throw you out of their mean and lonely playpen . Perhaps we are blessed to be out of it but it doesn’t feel like it some days when you are wondering how your going to make ends meet. Never ever lose your peace though and my advice is be thankful for small blessings and look for kind people to chat with ( I met many a kind soul just out in the park having a walk ) and keep praying and believe being away from such a tortured mean soul is God / the Divine / the universe protecting you and even if it’s a simpler and quieter and more humble life living without much it’s better than sharing it with someone who has not got his devoted wife and living children’s best interests at heart because of his extreme self love . Hoping and praying you do come out of your divorce with enough to get by at least . I got by on the pittance and looking into new ways of making a few extra pounds now the girls have left but if not most of what I do doesn’t require too much money and you will be surprised how a little bit of help here and there comes from the good people . I understand the total disbelief though of how we created a family thst we believed would last a lifetime but the “child “ in it got bored and left without looking back and we could never have envisaged that. But if someone is heartless then that’s how they behave and yes it breaks our lovely hearts . I feel your pain I really really do but you will be ok. Sending much love and many hugs your way and God bless you and your future and your children
Hi Rebecca,
I’m pleased that this resonated with you!
I’d love you to google my name plus the topic “court and legal” and you will find quite a few resources which I hope will help you.
Much love to you
Mel 🙏💕💚
Yep, I’m “bad” because I caught her doing something wrong.
Then comes the chain excuse weaving.
Apologies? Never, not even false ones.
The cat herding sessions go everywhere except on the subject. I can spend an hour and not be anywhere closer to a resolution than when I started.
Lying and gaslighting. Yep. The louder she yells, the more power she thinks she has to change history and reality.
I no longer allow anybody to drag me into an argument. I just turn and walk away. May as well try to reason with a tomato.
A tomato!! I get more out of a tomato anyway.
Thank you for this article today. That is my son to the last detail. I have tried all I can to make it right with him, but as per your article today, he will NEVER change. This is over 10 years of abuse from him and at last, at the age of 71 (!) I have drawn the line. I can’t and will not take his abuse anymore. It has been nearly 8 months and with your help, Melanie, I have at last been able to walk away from him and not let things he does or says upset me as it always did in the past. I have just gone through a Smear Campaign where he has written to our whole family saying “ let’s set the record straight “ in which he has said that this is entirely MY fault, I caused this all! Fortunately for me the family have been around for longer than he has lived and are all aware of his behaviour towards me. So no damage was done. None of them responded and I’m sure that got to him too.
So everyday I am getting stronger and trying to accept life without him being in my life. It’s tough. After all he is my son. But if I didn’t walk away now, he would have put me in an early grave! I am blessed to have his ex wife in my corner and as a result I have built a strong relationship with my two beautiful granddaughters.
So, thank you Melanie for showing me the way.
Lots of love
Bye bye. 💕
Hi Elaine,
my heart goes out to you regarding your son.
I’m so glad that you are honouring you – it is the only way.
So much love and future blessings to you Elaine, you truly deserve them.
Mel 🙏💕💚
Does this go on any public site?. There is just soo much… Too much.. Completely overwhelming that I am trying to heal from x
Hi Sarah,
yes this a public site.
Sarah for the next steps to help you, you can email my support staff at [email protected]
Big hugs and love to you
Mel 🙏💕💚
Dear Melanie,
I hope you live to be 1000. The world needs you to help these women heal and until narcissism is extinct.
Thank you for my healing and the refreshing reminders -in case I would start to deceive myself. You’re amazing for staying on this topic and for focusing on how to heal.
Sending deep appreciation and love on your path. 🙂
Oh darling Iris!
So much love to you, missed you in the Group today.
I’m going to email you soon and set up a chat!
Mwah
Mel 🙏💕💚
Missed you all too!. Traveling alot again and answering patient calls this month is keeping me out of town for a few weeks. A chat will be awesome. You’re such a great role model for strength of every sort. Thank God for your example.
XOXO
Yes babe we will!
And SO are you. I could do with some “Iris inspiration” right now in hard lockdown Melbourne.
Totes xoxox
Melanie, your honest teaching gives so much comfort strength and clarity to the world, you have been a blessing for so many. I feel a deep affinity to those who post comments for I have trodden that path too in the past.
Once the decision to not tolerate abuse is made there truly is transformation, that is part of the first step, it creates a small space for us to grow and expand into the person we had forgotten we were.
There is hope, it is possible to heal and to learn and to move forward and grow, it takes a solid commitment to ourselves.
Thank you Melanie, for your commitment to this community.
Om Namah Shivaya.
Hi Emma,
thank you for your kind words!
It is SO about that deep commitment to self.
Much love to you and thank you for your post
Mel 🙏💕💚
You hit the nail on the head with what my husband is doing. He creates situations to blame me when they go wrong. And when i talk him and he always turns the situation which he has created around on me.
Dear Melanie,
Since doing your healing I have found I feel solid and stable. The attacks from the narcissist have become so ridiculous that they don’t even register anymore. I just see weird behaviour and feel compassion without the slightest involvement. I never answer back.
Hi Linda,
that is so awesome!
I’m really happy that you feel free.
Much love to you
Mel 🙏💕💚
Thanks for validating the experience I lived with/through for 28 years. Just reading this I found myself saying, “Yup, yup, lived through that one, yup….” I also experienced a bit of weariness, recalling all of that. But most of all, I felt RELIEF that I no longer have to go through ANY of that! Thank you Mel.
Hi MaryAnn,
you are most welcome!
love and blessings to you
Mel 🙏💕💚
Checked every box. I remember as a teenager, my father coming into my room and telling me that my sister was upset because “She thinks you think you are better than her because you know what you want to do with your life.” Living with these two for 15 years, I knew the plan. They would often team up on some character assassination scheme designed to attack myself worth. I was brought into the kitchen where she was crying. For the next 1 1/2 hours, I was forced to defend myself against this bizarre charge the two of them had cooked up. I was a terrible person, I was cold, distant and superior acting, I had no care for my family wasn’t it terrible how I had upset my sister? On and on. Tag team narcs. Afterwards, strangely, my mother materialized and urgently said to me “you have to get out of here!” It was the one piece of advice she ever gave me. I did, but sadly, she did not.
Hi Melanie,
This is an excellent article! Everything you listed is exactly what I went through with my ex-husband. Through a lot of therapy and three lawyers I have learned that I needed to find within myself what I was looking for from him. I’ve learned to calm down and disconnect from his blatant lies and re-invention of history.It’s a long and hard battle but the truth is inside us, not them.
Hi Carrie,
its great that this resonated with you. I lov ethat you have turned inwards to connect to you.
If you want a deeper and faster process to heal and empower you, I’d love you to join me in my free webinar http://www.melanietoniaevans.com/freewebinar where you can learn about Quanta Freedom Healing and NARP http://www.melanietoniaevans.com/narp which is a game-changer in regard to healing.
I hope that this can help
Mel 🙏💕💚
Thank you once again Melanie. This was very good to read tonight. I’m thinking about all the times she has argued about possessions and money and the home and so on and so forth. There has been no semblance of resolution at all. It also reminded me of the cheating that she has done over the years. Of course I was told that it was my fault that she cheated. All in all she has whittled away at myself-esteem which nearly bottomed out…. All five categories I have experienced with my narcissistic marital partner. It is amazing how so many of us experience the same thing….BUT I know that I am recovering and she doesn’t have the same power over me anymore and I attribute some of that to listening to your videos for sometime now. Thank you once again.❤️🕊🌈
Hi Peter,
you are very welcome.
I’m really pleased that my material has helped you.
Sending you healing and power
Mel 🙏💕💚
This is very helpful for me at this time. I was raised by a narcissist. I have forgiven her and understand now the pain she lived in. I now have the emotional triggers that this program is helping release and find my freedom. It is not an easy road to take for me. Each time I do a module I gain more space inside of me to fill with love and light. Thank you for sharing this work. I am forever grateful
Hi Judy,
I’m happy that this could help you.
I love that you are doing the work and filling with love and light,
Many continued blessings to you
Mel 🙏💕💚
This is all so true! They are not team players and they are definitely not on your side! I really needed this today. Won’t go into the “why’s” right now but this was a timely reminder. Thank you.
Hi Julia,
that’s great this was timely for you.
Love and blessings
Mel 🙏💕💚
Narcs do a lot of harm to their children. Their children are voiceless and are not supposed to haver their own opinions, ideas, feelings or moods. ACON (Adult Children of Narcissists) suffer a great deal as they do not have a solid sense of self, their self confidence is totally eroded. They stand on shaky ground. With what I have known, my advice would be to run away somewhere where there is no contact. Your child will grow up confused and triangulated.
Hi Mel I have always been a person who prayed about every thing. To ad to my prayers you have shown me strategies to deal with a Narcissist. It took many years to learn that that is what my hus band is through prayer and your teaching I am healing. Thank you so much
Hi Peggy,
I am so happy for you!
Sending you much continued love and blessings
Mel 🙏💕💚
At this point, I have cyclically argued at work with a particular narcissist as a way of practicing standing my ground and my clarity. The narst is, after all, offering themselves for this. So it is also a practice of not projecting who I want them to be for me, but of accepting the recessive but stubborn vanishing point of their own standing. That small standing only works for them when I project something the slightest bit more human sanity-like onto them. The slightest. To let go of that projection feels like committing a kind of killing, such an un-human-like thing to do. However, with a little more perspective in the moment of argument, or retrospectively, it is actually my most supportive act toward them in terms of their human parts, I came to think. For in this clarity clear of my projection, their human parts can be seen; what needs to be done in order to not sacrifice neither my nor their ground can be seen. The kill has to be made, simply and most directly by not giving their narst self even the beginnings of my attention – which can be done without sacrificing my awareness. In fact, my awareness is restored. Their human parts can even be seen there, at a small distance from their narst self, laying upon their own true ground, where they are not being given air by their totalitarianistic narst parts, and they gasp breathlessly just this side of their human existential death. The best i can do for them is to see them – but no. Because they then seem to be gobbled up further by their pseudo self-partner, their self-parasite, their human parts not being allowed to be seen. I felt the knot straddling my diaphragm, still available from an ancient mourning. I told myself that they were just human parts . . . perhaps absconded through interbreeding -? It is hard to question an old conscience, proposedly in the interest of getting to the finish line of morbidly compromised original intents for well-meaning. And therein feels to lie some good trauma parts for healing.
I slowed my breathing down, matching the slow motion state I felt myself going into while reading your comment. Inadequate words to describe such an intense feeling.
Hi Mel Am continuing to heal. Now I can see that through my 39+ year marriage my husband has been Down playing our relationship to build his own ego AS soon as someone else enters our lives he immediately makes me the bad guy and defends them. For years I could not explain it but now i know he is a narcissist deriving pleasure out of making me feel less than others. All of his attention is put on the other person’s feelings and making feel like enemy and not them. Since I have been reading your program I am feeling more power because now I know what I am dealing with but I am still always waiting for the next shoe to drop. Who will he use next to follow his agenda against me and his marriage. I find myself wondering what the future holds his manipulations have under minded my youngest son causing him to fight me and always be arrested and to not have a stable life. In his mind he was always right and I was wrong for trying to parent with some tough love.
A real Narcissist is close to have a mental disorder. If you are not a specialist how could you try to make him understand something ? He should fix his problems first.
Really interesting topic! Many thanks Melanie
Hi Jessa,
the truth is you can’t make anybody “get” anything.
The more you try to control an out of control (disordered person) the more you will lose control of yourself and your life.
The only way out of this trauma is to let go and heal you.
Much love to you
Mel 🙏💕💚
Can a narcissist recover?
How can we help a narcissist to change?
I lived with a narcissist for 18 years… my entire adult life. I’m no longer with him and getting better at not allowing what he says to affect me as much because I know he’s trying to hurt and control me by using my deepest insecurities against me. My question is… what’s the most effective way to deal with a narcissist when you can’t completely just cut ties? He’s the father of my children so, there are details of my life he’ll always be privileged to know as they pertain to the kids’ lives. He’s now using the children as weapons in a way (insinuating they’re less happy with me/ my choices). I’ve tried re-emphasizing the boundary of, “don’t involve the kids” but I doubt it will stick. Any advice?
It has been 6 months since our breakup, four since going no contact, and I am finally starting to heal. This man nearly broke me. He projected not only onto me, but onto my two autistic children. He almost had me convinced that they were the source of my emotional distress. Now I have emerged stronger and clearer than ever. Melanie, your work is saving my life.
I have lived with a narcissist for decades. I got him out of my life, finally, lived free of him for fourteen years, then foolishly let him back in. This biggest mistake. He does all the things you are listing here, all of them. He says things like, remember when….and its about you and you can’t remember anything like that happening. Then he’ll say, you can’t remember anything anyway. He make you doubt yourself.
You are also right about the arguing. You cannot only not win, you will not be allowed to get you thought across. He cuts you off immediately and accused you of not stopping when he demands it. It truly is insanity. He will also not talk to me for weeks on end, bristling at my very approach.
This is actually a respite for me because if he is having nothing to do with me, even if it is difficult, and it is, at least they’ll be no fights. I have, in said arguments, cursed him in everyway one can, which of course gives him more ammunition to use.
It’s like living with a multiple personality. When he’s nice, he is very nice, then turns into this brooding, nasty beast, sometimes for weeks. But it is my fault. I let him back and his scheme was just that, to not let me live and get back by any means. He is the pathological liar’s pathological liar.
A beautiful post 💗 Than you, Mel 🌸
It’s my pleasure Jane,
lovely to hear from you!
Mel 🙏💞🦋
Keeps changing the subject. I called these “cat herding sessions”. I’d spend an hour trying to reason with my narcissist wife or my narcissist kids and be worse off than having not tried to reason at all. The narcissist wife would bring things up from 10 years ago and blow it out of proportion, like she had nothing else to grab onto. Our narcissist kids would outright lie and “weave chain excuses”.
Melanie here brings back to life an old chestnut of a post, “an oldie and a goodie.”
My best attempt at an answer to “How can I avoid arguing with a narc?” is “By going No Contact.”
Yeah: easier said than done, I know (mmm, mmm: wow, do I know).
May all of us who have been touched by this madness heal and thrive. Blessings to this blog!
Just watch yourube. Jonny Depp trial. You will see one there performing His ex.
Richard, I also watched enough of that trail to arrive at the same conclusion. In fact, it was the main reason for my interest; to see what happens when these people are truly put under a spotlight…. their response? Turbo-charged craziness and total unwillingness to “own” any fault on their part!
She was bad enough to start with but went into overdrive when she realised he wanted out. Like all narcs, when they suspect that the game is up they go mental and are unable to hide it. My family narc is identical to the infamous AH. Scary.
My boyfriend’s favorite way to argue is literally driving me insane! When I find out something he’s done or lied about or hidden from me, rather than make assumptions I will ask him for an explanation. Sometimes I’ll get a tiny glimpse into what the situation is but then he completely sits it down. He tells me he obviously wasn’t trying to hide anything because I know about it and he’s not doing anything wrong so that’s why he didn’t try to hide it. But if I had to pay detective and put a million pieces together to kind of figure something out then he was most definitely trying to hide it! Right?!?!? After the initial conversation whatever the issue was is closed for discussion. I’m always left with even more questions than I originally had but he tells me it’s old news (not to me!) and he’ll talk to me when there is something to actually talk about and not just stupid stuff that is nothing and just my crazy thoughts I come up with because that’s how I’ve ruined relationships in the past (couldn’t be further from the truth!). So everything eventually gets swept under the rug.The rug is quickly unraveling at this point!
My ex husband has used Family Court post-decree 9 yrs to continue to label me and my daughter. I have been labeled, my character assassinated, my mental health from being impression to diagnosis turned around by family court judges, with no credible evidence by my narcissist ex-husband. REGARDLESS OF ALL OF MY DOCUMENTATION IN 9 YRS of the Demonic Ex-husband narc, Family Court here in Arizona continues to give the RED CARPET to the NARC. In the meantime, after $ 400K in legal fees, and 9 yrs..NOTHING even winning appeals will EVER bring justice to this NARC EX-husband in my life. I can’t wait until my daughter is 18 and we MOVE OUT OF ARIZONA…..it’s corrupted and no matter how many NARC support I receive….my daughter and I continue to struggle in this NARC Family court system. HOW IN THE WORLD can a Mom or Father REGAIN A REPUTATION IN FAMILY COURT…..with judges already been convinced by a NARC of the lies with no credible exhibits and just GO ON HEARSAY testimony ? Seriously…under oath testimonies are taken for face value.
Ego is an ego … In Hinduism or Buddhism it’s called “Mann” … that’s it … not fragile ego or Mann … do you know what is the opposite of fragile ego?
All Narcissists are Clowns!
I remember calling narcissist whom I had known for years, a clown and needless to say it shut him up & made him think!
I saw a documentary on serial killer clown … textbook narc … when interrogated by police he was still clowning around with them! He was given death penalty for killing and burying 30 young man under his house 😱
You said: “Narcissists can’t communicate healthily – because they simply aren’t wired that way, it doesn’t compute for them.”
Don’t make excuses for them. They know exactly what they are doing. Especially when everything is calculated & premeditated!
So I really appreciate everyone who shared. I know the truth but I still want to believe it’s not that bad and that it isn’t hopeless. I am in my 60’s and you’d think I would know better. We live apart but he is reeling me back in as we speak. He has unforgiveness from many years ago that he made up. He has tried repeatedly to make me confess to it. Then he compares this imaginary sin to the drinking he has been doing and says my sin is worse. Insanity. This man has above average intelligence. Also, something nobody has touched on. I watched in shock in real time as he changed reality to his version right before my eyes. I said nothing because I could tell he actually believed it. Has anyone ever witnessed this? Mental illness. I am so glad I wrote this out because it makes me realize once again how hopeless it is. Thanks for reading.
Hi Anonymous,
what you are describing is so typical of what we all went through.
Please know that.
And yes it is hopeless, other than to disconnect, heal and create a life without this insanity.
Mel 🙏💞🦋
My ex changed his reality to match his imagined lie of a reality… Going so far as to overeat to the point of near immobility and chain-smoke to create a wheeze… Amazing… And all to get sympathy. Planning to reel me in with sympathy, for sure…
Hard to believe but I know it’s true. Pretty far lengths for a vain egotistical man to go to in order to get me back. I feel like a cold hearted bitch but I have to escape his clutches… Which could do me in
Well I gave almost 10 years. enough is enough.. I cannot take it anymore emotionally or physically. Calling an attorney tomorrow.. Your site has enlightened me that I deserve so much more even if it is alone. I have learned that you cannot argue with such a person.
Liza, I have no idea who you are (and vice versa). And while your “cannot take it” pains me (yes, I am an empath), I literally broke into a smile when I read your words “that I deserve so much more even if it is alone.” Yes, you cannot (and should not) argue with such a person. That’s right.
The “alone” you will face (you will, I promise) will be scary at first, but I would like to gently hold your hand right now and tell you that it is so, so worth it. You will become a kind of strong that is so powerful you will feel you have been given a new life, new eyes with which to see the world. Yes, “choosing you” is THAT powerful.
This place, this blog, and Melanie’s guidance / knowledge / wisdom / experiences / sharing sound like exactly the right place for you; I am so glad you have found your way here. As a fellow survivor of this madness, I welcome you as being among fellow, kindred spirits. I wish you the best on your journey: it is yours alone, and it will be amazing.